Consensus 2025
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CoinDesk Podcast Network

Bitcoin Layer 2s Aim to Attract Ethereum-Like Dapps. Will They Succeed?

Build on Bitcoin (BOB), Botanix, and Citrea plan to bring DeFi, perps, stablecoins, and much more to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Here’s how.

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ABOUT

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In this episode of Unchained, host Laura interviews Alexei Zamyatin, co-founder of Build on Bitcoin, Willem Schroé, founder of Botanix Labs, and Orkun Kılıç, co-founder of Chainway Labs. They discuss their respective projects, all of which are focused on developing Layer 2 solutions for Bitcoin.

Zamyatin's Build on Bitcoin is a hybrid Layer 2 that connects to both Bitcoin and Ethereum, aiming to bring innovation back to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Schroé's Botanix Labs is developing a decentralized Layer 2 solution using the ‘Spiderchain,’ which uses a series of multi-signature wallets to secure the chain. Kılıç's Chainway Labs is building Citrea, a zk-Rollup on Bitcoin that aims to create a Bitcoin-backed economy.

All three projects are in various stages of development and testing, with BOB’s mainnet launch expected shortly.

Show highlights:

  • Introduction to Build on Bitcoin (BOB), Botanix, and Citrea: How they aim to innovate and expand Bitcoin's capabilities, including their architectural designs that integrate Ethereum users and work toward decentralization and trustlessness.
  • Security Aspects and Integration Strategies: What the security risks associated with BOB, Botanix, and Citrea are, and strategies to enhance decentralization over time?
  • How these layer 2s influence Bitcoin fees, and how Botanix's integration can leverage the Bitcoin ecosystem, with insights on the potential of Layer 3s and zk-rollups to transform Bitcoin's utility and fee dynamics.
  • How these projects aim to attract Ethereum users and developers, and the reasons why this may be an attractive opportunity for them
  • How Runes, Ordinals, and BRC-20s operate on Citrea, Botanix, and BOB
  • How Bitcoin is always a derivative when it’s not in its layer 1 and the pros and cons of different bridging solutions
  • The concept of forward secrecy and how it can help improve security in blockchains
  • Why Willem believes that Layer 3s are possible and bullish for Bitcoin
  • How ‘merged mining” resembles Ethereum’s restaking and why it’s positive for Bitcoin

Thank you to our sponsors! Polkadot

Guests |

Willem Schroé, founder of Botanix Labs

Orkun Kılıç, cofounder of Chainway Labs

Alexei Zamyatin, cofounder of Build on Bitcoin

Links |

Recent coverage on Unchained of Bitcoin L2s:

Stacks’ Muneeb Ali On Why Bitcoin Is Exciting Once Again

Build on Bitcoin

BOB learning documents

Announcement of mainnet on May 1st.

Unchained: Bitcoin DeFi App Sovryn to Deploy on Hybrid Layer 2 Network Build on Bitcoin

Alexei’s tweet on BitVM/rollups

Alexei went on a retreat with the inventor of BitVM

Citrea

Unchained: Here's What You Should Know About Citrea, Bitcoin's First ZK Rollup

Whitepaper

Orkun Mahir Kılıç’s interview on Unchained Premium

Citrea learning documents

Clementine -Citrea's BitVM Based Trust-Minimized Two-Way Peg Program

Botanix

CoinDesk: Willem Schroé: Building Botanix, a Bitcoin Layer 2 That Brings the EVM to Bitcoin

Botanix and the Future of Bitcoin

Bitcoin Magazine: Spiderchains: A Proof Of Stake Second Layer For Bitcoin

Willem Schroé’s interview on Unchained Premium

Learn More:

Unchained:

What Is the OP_CAT Bitcoin Improvement Proposal?

What Are Opcodes in Bitcoin? A Beginner's Guide


Unchained Podcast is Produced by Laura Shin Media, LLC. Distributed by CoinDesk. Senior Producer is Michele Musso and Executive Producer is Jared Schwartz.

HOST

Laura Shin

Laura Shin is a crypto journalist, host of the Unchained podcast, and author of “The Cryptopians: Idealism, Greed, Lies, and the Making of the First Big Cryptocurrency Craze” (Public Affairs, 2022). Formerly a senior editor at Forbes, she was the first mainstream journalist to cover crypto full-time, and her podcasts and videos have had more than 15 million downloads and views. Shin has spoken about cryptocurrency at places such as TEDx San Francisco, the International Monetary Fund, Singularity University and the Oslo Freedom Forum.

She graduated Phi Beta Kappa with Honors from Stanford University and has a master of arts from Columbia University’s School of Journalism. She lives in New York City.

Laura Shin